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Realsoft Forum • View topic - Realsoft Community Materials Library

Realsoft Community Materials Library

Moderator: Timo

Realsoft Community Materials Library

Postby TheRookie » Sunday 22. August 2004, 16:09

Hi guys,

After discussions with Marcin and Stef on IRC I am going to try and maintain a comprehensive library of basic materials on my website, if anyone has any interesting RS materials (not bitmaps) that they think would be nice in a begineers collection please contact me and send them to me.

I am going to start by creating some sets of metals, at the moment we only seam to have aluminium, steel, gold and copper? I am going to try and assemble a comprehensive list of metals over time. If anyone would like to contibute, metals, woods, fabrics, liquids, gases or anything else please get in touch.
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Postby onyx » Sunday 22. August 2004, 18:28

There was a thread about Mental Ray shaders on CGtalk:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s= ... genumber=1

And we should build our library of great RS materials. Post your ideas - what kind of materials you need. VSL is difficult but we can solve all problems here.
We can post preview renderings of our materials here (as in that CGtalk thread).

We need help from VSL masters here of course - I hope, that VSL beginners (like me) could learn a lot with such discussion.
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Postby __yra » Sunday 22. August 2004, 19:39

Very interesting idea :doh:
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Postby Spliney » Sunday 22. August 2004, 21:38

YES!! Great idea. Looking forward to see what comes of this. One reminder: on Render Daemon, there is already a collection of interesting VSL stuff...
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Postby Guest » Sunday 22. August 2004, 22:03

Yep this is a good idea..
I also like that one, to go out from a needed material, and some or all help out to get it done..
Input both from Masters and Beg-inners (like me hehe), that can have great value with different ways of viewing things..
Both in what VSL stuff is needed, but also what Interface (with easy controls) will be shown and easy manipulated for New users..
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Postby Beg-inner » Sunday 22. August 2004, 22:05

LOL
that last one was from me..=)
Cant one be notified that one just is guest and not logged in..as a warning? =)
Take Care
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Postby Guest » Monday 23. August 2004, 08:56

Hi

Interresting topic, and sounds like a very good idea. I think the builtin materials are a bit too basic, with little explanation on *why* a certain material is built the way it is. Here are just some "common sense" guidelines; which are easily neglected :)
1) No materials should ever write to "Mapping Coordinates", use a local variable instead. Writing to "Mappiong Coordinates" cause havoc when trying to implement shadows affected by bumps.
2) Use levels frequently. This way it is easy to turn off parts of the material without having to use multiple versions of the same shader type. Also, copying parts to another material is a lot more easy since you're copying evertything within that level. VSL doesn't let you select multiple objects from the list when trying to copy.
3) A collection of variations to a specific material is not a bad idea. There is no such thing as "brass" - the only brass kind there is. Metals come in a variety of colors, finishes, textures and other properties. Keep in mind how specular color is determined for electric (metals) and diaelectric materials.
4) Test the material with GI, AO shader, bumped shadows, and the "lightswitch diffuse only" (my shellac fails here i.e.), and make sure it "works", and make a comment about it inside the material if it doesn't. There's nothing worse that tweaking a material for all it's worth, then to find out that it doesn't work when all fancy stuff is turned on.
5) Put comments in the material, especially if special user channels or other properties are needed for it to work.

Vesa: How about a VSL "comment" object. Not sure if lots of "empty" levels are evaluated and slows down rendering...

I have a collection of materials, especially metals, that I use, and a system for building them that is a bit generic. They are all made with faded reflection mapping in mind, but v4.5 bugs when bumps are considered. These are level style materials; one for properties, one for bumps, one for secondary ray, and one for illumination (some blinn, some default, some anisotropic, some mixed). The bad thing about level materials though is that they share the mapping coords. Some userchannels are used though to transfer values from one shader to the next (i.e. blinn shading normally uses object color as input. When this turns very dark on shiny metals it's hard to get good blinn shading; so average(col+reflection) is used instead. Reflection color is not available in surface illumination shader :(

I'll see if I can find the time to rewrite the shellac from scratch, now that I know what needs to be in there, and make a GUI for it. Hopefully I will follow Vesa's advice to use custom color as diffuse base to avoid certain problems.

In the end, I'll see if I can dig up something :) Great initiative.

Btw; does this include materials where the user has to select a texture file on his own, or is this pure procedurals only?
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Postby onyx » Tuesday 24. August 2004, 21:22

Nice post, Guest 8) - thanks.
So, who will post some awsome materials first? ;)

Timo, could you make this thread Sticky?
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Postby Karl » Wednesday 25. August 2004, 15:49

Sorry about that. This is me, Karl :) To make it shorter, in more readable form, here is what I'm going to send to Frank, hopefully this week or weekend, maybe later depending on my schedule:
1) A gas lighter's gas flame (curve based illumination and fade).
2) Candle flame (same as above, slightly tweaked).
3) Candle wax (fake with illumination curves, some seemed to like it).
4) Celestial bodies; Gas-Giant with rings (animated). No textures needed.
5) Celestial bodies; Atmospheric planet, such as earth. Needs textures.
6) Celestial bodies; Rocky planet, such as our moon. Needs textures.
7) A couple of texture templates which I use very frequently. Fish scene custom AA support etc.
8) TV shader, if I can find it. Might have to remake it.
9) Fresnel light shader (easy one, no accuracy whatsoever).
10) Metal constructor material, with some finished ones. Uncertain due known v4.5/v5? bug.
11) Porselain (with some limitations, sorry).
12) Some basic material combinations (obvious stuff).
13) Special tweaks for custom diffuse shading (thanks Vesa, I think it will work).
14) Whatever else I can dig up :)

Consider this list also a personal reminder to myself, hehe :)

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Postby Timo » Thursday 26. August 2004, 12:44

I'll see if I can cook up an iridescence shader and maybe some general purpose stuff like... umm... something ;)
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Postby TheRookie » Thursday 26. August 2004, 21:06

Thanks for the great response guys, it looks like we might be cooking now with this one. I have changed from just doing metals to doing the entire periodic table :work: I'm not sure how it will turn out because as I gather up information on them its incredible how many elemental materials are either grey, silver or black! :)

Back to the grind stone, element 14 Silicon :)
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Postby geo » Monday 30. August 2004, 21:17

This would be a great resource, but I would like to request that some explanation of the materials would be welcomed by beginners (esp. me).

Firstly it's useful to understand the logic behind a material to be able to reuse it. Secondly, most submissions will be for v 4.5 and beyond, and I don't see myself upgrading from 4.2 for some time.

Even a screen shot of the editing screen would be useful, or if we could use a standard shorthand for describing a VSL object in text. Is there such a language?

eg. Shader(Surface Properties)
Float Varnam
Colour= +/- Float* ThisChannel
etc.

or is this too retrograde or too much work or pointless, especially for curves.

And right now I'd like to see some water shaders if anyone wants to add them to the library. In fact the site needn't have the shaders themselves if a simple description suffices.
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Postby Boris » Monday 30. August 2004, 21:43

I agree also and can't contribute very much to this topic because of a massive vsl knowledge lack but I'd like to link 3ddart to your material resource and give me a shout what else I can do :)
Bye
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Postby TheRookie » Tuesday 31. August 2004, 19:40

Hi Geo, this did actually turn out as a suggestion for VSL tutorials and I just didn't have the time with other commitments I'm afraid. I did have a start but then realised how much work it would be, similar to explaining a programming language. Collecting materials together appeared to be the easiest and most practical solution. The collection at the moment contains the Dabi2 collection, the RSCD collection and various materials posted to the list over the past few years, I am adding in some important new materials and filtering some out of my projects and then I will have to organise them all.

Many of these materials can also be combined to create lots of interesting effects so although understanding them would be good its not essential.
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This is tops ...

Postby bobalong » Friday 3. September 2004, 01:43

Frank & all,

This is a top idea. As you know from past tutoring conversations we had - you tutoring me Frank- one of my things was/is VSL and the lack of knowledge about same. I think I may speak for alot of users [new ones particularly, who may come from other 3D apps ] in saying that we want to get on with the work of 3D - modelling, texturing, animating - and not get bogged down in what is essentially a programming language. [ I realise how powerful it is, but from a new user perspective - it is difficult ] In dept VSL requires alot of time and a programmers savy. The latter I am not, as a matter of fact programming is, unfortunately, my least favourite subject in the world of computers. Ergo, my full access to the powers of the RS3D Shading system, may at best, always be limited.

Having come from Truespace, which has a wealth of shader plugins, the lack of a basic library of same [ covering all material types and variations ] in RS3D was a bit disappointing to me as a new user facing a battle with the ins and outs of VSL. BUT, now you are rectifying this with your library. I am a happy camper. AND I thank you and all who contribute to this endeavour.

My full encouragement for what its worth, because that is all I can offer, as for beyond the basic's, I am a VSL dim wit.

Cheers and thanks
Aidan O Driscoll - Aka Bobalong

PS - this is a screen shot of the TS materials selector box [ left ], editor [ right ] and a quick render of one of these materials [ middle ]. I am putting this here, not to compare, but to show ye guys where a guy like me has come from - more of a simple higher level materials function, with no programming in sight:

http://tidalsound.com/3dstuff/ts_material.jpg

this should illustrate why VSL is such a mystery to me and maybe others, new to RS. [ this is just one small material selection in TS ] ... AND just in case anyone thinks otherwise - I AM DEAD HAPPY WITH RS, and a proud owner to boot - using it / learning it everyday!
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