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Realsoft Forum • View topic - In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

Realsoft 3D Discussion forum moderated by Vesa Meskanen, Realsoft OY

Moderator: vesamesk

In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

Postby guest » Tuesday 30. January 2007, 10:09

Hi :

I know we have a v6 wishlist going but maybe these specific wishes will also bring attention to the kinds of things that may very well be encountered when trying to "Blend" RS3D CGI with a typical camera mapped SynthEyes video .

1) I've mentioned this last year ... the ability to allow certain lights to only affect certain objects . Vesa did respond (thanks very much) and that answer made total sense , but then Timo offered a workaround by allowing his awesome Environment Mapping shader to be "Gi Invisible" . Perfect !

2) Same with Shadows . When we are placing CGI objects into captured Video we will need shadows to be placed onto those CGI objects , but not onto the Camera-Mapped objects in our RS3D scene that are only there as Camera-Mapped objects or as 'Collision Objects' , for instance .

For instance :

We may desire to have these camera-mapped 'Collision Objects' ( A wall , or a floor) to catch the shadows of other collision objects ( a ball or character walking) , but not the shadows of the objects used to cast shadows on that particular ball or that character walking .

I know this may be difficult to visualise , so here is a 'not-so-good-example' of an Icarus camera-matched video and some RS3D Collision object spheres . The tree that casts the long shadow across the center of this example is badly blended into the concrete slab in an effort to cast shadows onto the chrome spheres .

http://www.studiodynamics.net/list/bad_shadows.avi 1.4MB Xvid

You will notice that in order to have a shadow fall on the Chrome Spheres I also had to allow a shadow to fall on the camera-mapped concrete slab 'stand-in' ... a very bad looking shadow that is not required , since the natural shadows are already there .

If I were to make the concrete slab 'stand-in' "no_shadows" , then the slab would not catch the Chrome Sphere's shadows , resulting in a lack of depth for the spheres .

It would require extra 'switches' to remedy this situation , or just go back to the previous way of working like we had in V3.5 where lights placed in certain levels only affected objects <b>in that level</b> .

Cheers and hope this all makes sense and if there is a workaround (beside the two-stage rendeiring method) please do let me know . Thanks .
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RE: In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

Postby guest » Wednesday 31. January 2007, 01:29

OK , I searched around a little bit , and on Timo's site there is a Shadow Pass shader which removes shadows from the render and sends them to a separate channel where a user can modify them in post .
I'll look at this and see if it is the solution to removing shadows from certain objects .
http://koti.welho.com/tmikkola/materials/ShadowPass.zip
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RE: In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

Postby guest » Wednesday 31. January 2007, 04:48

Well :

I'm sure the Chinese Puzzle lovers will dig this shader . I tried to get it to do something but ... no luck ... . If you load this shader via the Material Browser , once again , you do not get the included channels with it . Perhaps this is something that could be looked at for the next version of the Material Browser ? In my mind a Material Browser should load in all parts of a shader , not just some parts of it .

Anyway , like many of the materials , if you load it via "Paste from a file" it loads fine , and this shader also has 3 included channels with it . What would have been nice would have been a post processing event included also , that does a lightening or darkening or blurring or contrasting ... something . I tried to get a post effect to use the channels somehow , but no luck . Of course , I know just about zip-all when it comes to Post Processing or VSL in general .

Anyway , it looks as though there may not be an elegant way of restricting shadows , from what I can see , outside of a VSL shader designed specifically for that end . However , it may be possible to do a 2 pass render method ... still not sure exactly how I am going to set that up , though .

cheers
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RE: In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

Postby Timo » Wednesday 31. January 2007, 11:32

The shader was meant for post processing outside of RS, but you can still use the channel in RS as well. Just note that the channel is inverted, as in the shadows are white and 'light' spots are black. Selective shadowing (as in this object casts shadows to that object, but not that) is pretty much impossible to do in a general/usable way. The only 'easy' case is objects that don't receive shadows from any lights.
When it is darkest, men see the stars.
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Re: RE: In Regards to Camera-Matching ... A V6 wishlist ?

Postby guest » Wednesday 31. January 2007, 22:56

Timo wrote:The shader was meant for post processing outside of RS, but you can still use the channel in RS as well. Just note that the channel is inverted, as in the shadows are white and 'light' spots are black. Selective shadowing (as in this object casts shadows to that object, but not that) is pretty much impossible to do in a general/usable way. The only 'easy' case is objects that don't receive shadows from any lights.


OK , thanks for the reply Timo .

Hmmm , what about VSL ? Could I not create some kind of a channel to add to an object (via VSL) , and then on other objects either set them to catch shadows (again via VSL) through that channel , or not ? That way an object could cast onto selected objects only , depending on how those objects had their VSL switches set .

It could be either a simple ON/OFF control , but the ability to Lighten/Darken could also be very useful , I would think . Maybe not , I don't know . This would solve the problem , but maybe it's not do-able .

Anyway , for now I have found a simple way to do it ... just render twice and camera-map the first render to the second render and add shadows selectively there . I'll post details in another post .

Thanks again for your time and efforts .
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